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Post by Argo on Mar 21, 2006 2:53:31 GMT -5
Who was being sarcastic. Starting a union in this industry would be a herculean task. Too many international boundaries to cross. If you start with this attitude you will never get anywhere..... as Zen said, "Even the longest journey starts with the first step............."
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Post by pir8 on Mar 21, 2006 19:51:06 GMT -5
Where do you recomend starting
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Post by Thomas on Mar 23, 2006 6:03:43 GMT -5
Where do you recomend starting I make pri8 question my own.....
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Post by pir8 on Mar 23, 2006 16:44:58 GMT -5
Huh?
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Post by Argo on Mar 26, 2006 9:39:59 GMT -5
Where do you recomend starting The first step is to find like minded instructors and pros that are fed up of working for peanuts, be treated as slaves and generaly being f**ked over.......... Thats the first step !! So if there are any instructors that feel like that out there they can PM me here on the forum..........
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Post by Callisto on Apr 3, 2006 20:01:34 GMT -5
Question : Are we allowed to publish divecenters' contracts here and compare ? Shouldn't we be able to figure out what is fair for a couple of areas and come up with a standard contract; fair compensations for a certain number of conditions ?
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Post by LSDeep on Apr 3, 2006 20:30:34 GMT -5
Question : Are we allowed to publish divecenters' contracts here and compare ? Shouldn't we be able to figure out what is fair for a couple of areas and come up with a standard contract; fair compensations for a certain number of conditions ? i cant really see a prob with it, as long as a contract dont has a confidality section in it. even than, if we wipe out dc names and use it really for area comparision i cant see a prob. who wants try to proof that is really their contract and not the one of another dc in the area. diverse places i know dont have a prob to let me know, when i ask (even if they know i dont really consider working for them). thats usually the ones that have halfway fair deals going anyway i guess, or believe they do or say straight forward - thats the best i can do. i worked for places that payed less than optimum, but it was ok with me, cause i saw they dont make a fortune on my back and it was just better working with them than others in the area. so sure, lets go for it!
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Post by Callisto on Apr 4, 2006 19:46:51 GMT -5
Ok, got it comin' ... What else do unions do ?
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Post by Argo on Apr 5, 2006 2:35:04 GMT -5
Ok, got it comin' ... What else do unions do ? They Kick ass IF necessary jking......... Unions, or in this case, an Association of Diving Pro's will protect the interests of its members. Representing them in all areas of their occupation, Health and Safety at work, minimum wages and conditions, and my idea also would be to have a help fund for Pro's, that through no fault of their own are stuck, stranded or left destitute after a working incident. This could include, but be not limited to, Hurricane's, Tsunami's and other non expected natural disasters OR where legal help is required to recover withheld wages.............etc..............etc............etc! This is how I see the work of this association..........BUT by the response I have received doesn't look like anybody is really to worried about their futures.........
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Post by pir8 on Apr 5, 2006 7:49:30 GMT -5
It will take someone to lead the project that really believes in it. Again this is a herculean task. It's not so much that people aren't worried about their future but have other jobs that create their security zand this is a hobby/supplement.
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Post by Argo on Apr 6, 2006 1:58:08 GMT -5
It will take someone to lead the project that really believes in it. Again this is a herculean task. It's not so much that people aren't worried about their future but have other jobs that create their security zand this is a hobby/supplement. I realise that what you say is true about it being a herculean task. Also that alot of Instr's do it as a supplement to the daily job. These people, in my opinion, are not pro's.......If an occupation takes up more than 50% of your working time that is when you can class yourself as a pro in the area that you are working. If not then it is a hobby! Unfortunately there are a great number of these "Hobby" Instructors and they will, eventually, ruin it for the full time Instructors. This is also another reason to get all instructors (Part & Full time) into an association so that there can in fact be a regulation of the conditions of work etc.......... I believe fully in this and am going to register the Associaton of Diving Professionals. I am at the moment in the Dom Rep for cpl months (checking out the bad guys!). I will be asking my lawyer to file an application to register the Association. After that we will see what happens. I welcome like minded instructors (AI's & DM's) to PM me so that we can at long last get this off the ground!
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Post by pir8 on Apr 6, 2006 21:10:45 GMT -5
I' sorry that you feel that way about people that can't afford to spend half their working time doing this thing they love. I don't think most shops in the states( forget about Fla) would be able to survive without the weekend warriors.
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Post by Argo on Apr 7, 2006 1:29:45 GMT -5
I' sorry that you feel that way about people that can't afford to spend half their working time doing this thing they love. I don't think most shops in the states( forget about Fla) would be able to survive without the weekend warriors. That is exactly the situation that I am talking about, I certainly don't see it as the associations job to close businesses that would not exist if there were no part time instr's. I see it more as a way to regulate the working conditions of the majority of the diveshops.......If people want to work part time then there should also be some kind of protection for the full time pro's.......e.g. what is to stop a shop employing 3 part time Instr's and getting around the insurance and tax laws that way? Nothing !! This way at least the full time instr has a chance at earning a living in his profession!
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Post by pir8 on Apr 7, 2006 12:45:10 GMT -5
I don't see how having part time instructors gets a DC around insurance. Everybody still has to have insurance both DC and instructor. It might get them out of having to pay some benefits. But then the full timers at shops still have to get them and there is always some full timers. Just not everyone. I'm not sure about taxes. That is always a scary subject.
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Post by Argo on Apr 7, 2006 13:36:37 GMT -5
I don't see how having part time instructors gets a DC around insurance. Everybody still has to have insurance both DC and instructor. It might get them out of having to pay some benefits. But then the full timers at shops still have to get them and there is always some full timers. Just not everyone. I'm not sure about taxes. That is always a scary subject. OK I see from your profile your in the US....I can't say anything about insurence premiums there. In europe if your employed then your emplyer, if your full time, has to pay all your social benefits, insurance in this case is health, pension etc.....Or at least they are supposed to......
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Post by pir8 on Apr 9, 2006 20:43:08 GMT -5
This is not necessarily the case in the States. Benefits may or may not be included in your fulltime employment package depending on employment agreements. They are generally not included in part time employment but could be part of a package. Actually I was thinking about Teaching insurance.
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Post by nitrogendreams on Apr 10, 2006 19:29:34 GMT -5
Ok, what about if in fact: We START working in building this UNION.
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Post by LSDeep on Apr 11, 2006 0:08:25 GMT -5
my saying - how was it in this stupid movie? "build it and they will come..."?? something like that. so forget about ppl joining into doing the work - its seldom happen! just lets get started to get it of the ground and ppl will join in! well, if not - you cant help them and only hope that things get so bad one day (after we are long out of it as a job) that they say - it would have been a wise idea to join and work on it!!!!
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Post by Argo on Apr 11, 2006 0:12:53 GMT -5
Ok, what about if in fact: We START working in building this UNION. Right..........lets get it on !!
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Post by nitrogendreams on Apr 11, 2006 17:23:28 GMT -5
Ok, get ready to call me crazy, but what about if we create a UNION based on the FAIR PLAY idea.
No legal systems just a place where dive centers and employees agree to respect a systema and some moral rules.
All the members are public and the organization helps and makes public cases of conflict between both parties.
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