Post by LSDeep on Feb 7, 2006 21:15:05 GMT -5
By DANIEL BATEMAN
08feb06
DO we have sensitive new-age fish in our waterways?
No, is the answer from three scientists on the subject of whether fish have more than just hurt feelings when we hook them.
A letter to the editor published in Monday's Townsville Bulletin called for an end to the barramundi season because fish feel fear and pain just as we and our pet dogs do and therefore was 'akin to impaling puppies or ponies on hooks'.
But James Cook University fisheries biologist Dr Dean Jerry said the short answer was no, the pain response of fish and mammals was too different to suggest barramundi were being tortured.
"The general consensus is that the pain pathways in fish are a lot different to mammals," Dr Jerry said.
"They generally do not feel the same amount of pain as we do."
In her letter, Bulletin reader Rebecca Smith said 'most recent and credible scientific literature shows fish, barramundi included, have the same nerve endings, the same chemicals for transmitting and blocking pain, and the same receptor sites for anxiety-reducing chemicals as mammals'.
But Dr Jerry said recent scientific literature does not reflect this at all.
"I don't agree that the literature actually says that," he said.
"The current belief is you cannot put human feeling into anything as low down the evolutionary ladder as a fish."
Dr Walter Starck, a retired marine biologist of 50 years' experience worldwide, said it was a difficult question to answer.
"These kind of claims are like whether or not you believe in creationism or evolutionism," Dr Starck said.
"There is no way to prove either.
"I've caught fish and released them a few minutes later, only to find them return and take the same bait again."
He said the inherent flaw with Ms Smith's claims was there was a fundamental difference between the brains of fish and mammals.
"There is a huge difference between the brain of a fish and the brain of a human and a brain of a dog," Dr Starck said.
"The brain is where the pain signals are processed and where they are experienced, not the peripheral nervous system.
"Even if there was a peripheral nervous system then yes, there is a response from a painful process, but there would not be a consciousness associated with the brain to experience that pain."
Marine biologist and fisherman Andrew Tobin said the discomfort a fish may feel when caught was far removed from what humans perceive as pain.
"There is no doubt fish feel some discomfort," Mr Tobin said.
"They certainly are trying to get away.
"But whether they experience what we perceive as pain is pretty farfetched."
Sunfish NQ spokesman Arthur Dobe said the idea of doing away with recreational fishing of barramundi because the fish feel pain was 'ridiculous'.
"Fish have instinct, not pain," Mr Dobe said.
"Where will it stop? In Holland or Germany there is hardly any more primary industry because of all this green business and liberation business."
townsvillebulletin.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,7034,18077495%255E14787,00.html
08feb06
DO we have sensitive new-age fish in our waterways?
No, is the answer from three scientists on the subject of whether fish have more than just hurt feelings when we hook them.
A letter to the editor published in Monday's Townsville Bulletin called for an end to the barramundi season because fish feel fear and pain just as we and our pet dogs do and therefore was 'akin to impaling puppies or ponies on hooks'.
But James Cook University fisheries biologist Dr Dean Jerry said the short answer was no, the pain response of fish and mammals was too different to suggest barramundi were being tortured.
"The general consensus is that the pain pathways in fish are a lot different to mammals," Dr Jerry said.
"They generally do not feel the same amount of pain as we do."
In her letter, Bulletin reader Rebecca Smith said 'most recent and credible scientific literature shows fish, barramundi included, have the same nerve endings, the same chemicals for transmitting and blocking pain, and the same receptor sites for anxiety-reducing chemicals as mammals'.
But Dr Jerry said recent scientific literature does not reflect this at all.
"I don't agree that the literature actually says that," he said.
"The current belief is you cannot put human feeling into anything as low down the evolutionary ladder as a fish."
Dr Walter Starck, a retired marine biologist of 50 years' experience worldwide, said it was a difficult question to answer.
"These kind of claims are like whether or not you believe in creationism or evolutionism," Dr Starck said.
"There is no way to prove either.
"I've caught fish and released them a few minutes later, only to find them return and take the same bait again."
He said the inherent flaw with Ms Smith's claims was there was a fundamental difference between the brains of fish and mammals.
"There is a huge difference between the brain of a fish and the brain of a human and a brain of a dog," Dr Starck said.
"The brain is where the pain signals are processed and where they are experienced, not the peripheral nervous system.
"Even if there was a peripheral nervous system then yes, there is a response from a painful process, but there would not be a consciousness associated with the brain to experience that pain."
Marine biologist and fisherman Andrew Tobin said the discomfort a fish may feel when caught was far removed from what humans perceive as pain.
"There is no doubt fish feel some discomfort," Mr Tobin said.
"They certainly are trying to get away.
"But whether they experience what we perceive as pain is pretty farfetched."
Sunfish NQ spokesman Arthur Dobe said the idea of doing away with recreational fishing of barramundi because the fish feel pain was 'ridiculous'.
"Fish have instinct, not pain," Mr Dobe said.
"Where will it stop? In Holland or Germany there is hardly any more primary industry because of all this green business and liberation business."
townsvillebulletin.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,7034,18077495%255E14787,00.html