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Post by flotsam on Nov 27, 2004 17:56:31 GMT -5
Hey guys... Anyone feel like I do on this? I did DM in June,OWSI in August. It took months for PADI to acknowledge my applications. I did MSDT immediately afterwards and I m still not registered as an MSDT. We pay loads of cash to the Mother company...for what? I recently went to PADI uk to hand deliver a list of certs. No-one came down to say hi, no-one offered me a coffee, and yet as an MSDT/OWSI I am the frontline goodwill ambassador for the organisation. All I got was a furtive and slightly unbelieving acknowledgement from membership. Have you tried calling them? Answer phones..delayed responses...slow responses...no responses...have you ever considered the following: PADI is a complex network marketing business created to get dreamers to part with cash to buy into a system that only works if its members continue to sell? PADI closes the sale by making you study the manual for two weeks then telling you to uphold PADI values or face dismissal. You see piss poor professional practice wherever you go, operations that would ordinarily fall foul of consumer protection legislation in the states and the UK, and yet PADI does **** all to deal with it. Do you think PADI are reading this site and taking stock of the bad guys section? Do you honestly think that the PADI Men in Black will turn up at Duck and Dive and vaporise their dive shop? I really believe that we, yes me too, are being sold a crock of lies and horse nuts by our umbrella organisation. They can dress it up as much as they like because they can afford too. Here's a philosophical cruncher. If you 've never been taught diving before, how would you tell the difference between the good guys and the bad guys? If you turn up to work somewhere, how do you know if the company is delivering standards? You don't..you rely on a benchmark. PADI are supposed to be that benchmark and yet all over the world, people are abusing it and PADI are doing bugger all to combat it. Shame on you PADI, shame on your short sighted, money grabbing, self serving, sanctimonious and downright dangerous corporate blindness. All divers out there...think about this message, do you agree..disagree.. and which ever way you think, how would you react and what should we do about it. Maybe a union of instructors is the way forward? I dunno....over to you!  |
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Post by Jaws11 on Nov 28, 2004 10:48:37 GMT -5
Which PADI area are you dealing with? I found the PADI US v good whereas PADI UK has room for improvement
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Post by ScubaGav on Nov 29, 2004 5:01:56 GMT -5
I fully agree with the PADI UK comments. They have always been really bad for me, took months for them to recognise my instructors, almost lost my job it took so long, the owner badly needed an instructor not a DM. So even the dive centre owner was chasing them. I have lost my EFR, got it back, lost it again..... I'm never sure what PADI actually think I can teach today. Also becuase I said that I wanted to work in Thailand on my IDC form they registered me with Asia Pacific even though nothing was organised and my first job was covered by theUK branch. Wonderful, the two registrations don't match; Oz says I'm not an MSDT where UK says I am.
None of this is a problem though because at least they always ask me to pay for renewals twice, and I often get two copies of the U/S Journal.
Generally I think their customer service (we are their customers) is not good at all. But I know many other people that say PADI have always been great with them.
I am happy to pay my fees and I like the materials etc, I just wish I felt like I got more for my money than a quarterly magazine. Its great to be a PADI instructor but its a hassle being affiliated with an organisation that creates work for you.
But at the end of the day, it's the best qualification to get a recreational diving job with so we are kind of stuck.
On one other point, what is their website all about. When I studied computing at school we wouldn't have got away with such a shoddy design and implementation. Even the digital instructor manual is just an acrobat file of what they print off. THere is so much more they could have done with both.
I'm interested in the undercover diver thing, has anyone ever heard of PADI catching up with someone or an organisation 'undercover' so to speak.
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Post by manta on Nov 29, 2004 7:16:57 GMT -5
It is a shame that all the fees we pay don't go to a better maintianed computer network and website. It irritates me that there are TWO separate sign-in pages...If I try to sign into my account from the dive shop, we have to find the other log in info so I can log them back in when I'm finished, THEN go to another log in page to actually look at the stuff. I understand that there is a great deal of travel for the instructor evaluators, but I can't think that it would cost too much to get a decent network for the other global organizations to a different site where ALL the info was - how hard is it to set up a database that all can access and make searchable for all divisions? Maybe they need some better computer gurus working for them. I feel fortunate to only have had to deal with PADI Americas - I'd hate to have to deal with the other divisions, especially after what I've read here about UK and Pacific. Makes me want to stay in the Northern Hemisphere  -k |
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Post by tekmac on Nov 29, 2004 8:53:38 GMT -5
I have to agree.I was dealing over the years with Padi Europe, Uk, Asia and Usa. the only one that seems to have their sh*t halfway together seems to be International (Usa) and even there is a lot of room for improvement.
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Post by ninjadoc on Nov 30, 2004 0:25:53 GMT -5
Well it is a sad case. I had a incident with Padi a year ago. I thought I lost my DM card, sent the money in a Padi envelope, and never got another one, I did find the original. Now get this. I took MSDT, the government
paid for my specialties, Padi sent the cards. I know Padi
does not send anything unless the monies are received first. I get invoices 6 months later to pay for them. I do agree that a union would be nice, I have been given alot
of stories like the dive industry needs to stay self regulated to avoid bureaucratic red tape. As well as make the industry more expensive . I look at those comments and say ,there isn't a bureacracy now? and fees aren't going through the roof?. I know lastly that many may not want to rock the boat, but I can guarantee, if at least 40% of the industry steppped up
it can change with many improvements
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Post by Capt. Monk on Nov 30, 2004 6:39:23 GMT -5
Don't even get me started on this mess of worms. I get billed every month from them for facility dues even though I stopped being a PADI Facility 3 years ago. No matter how many times I call or who I speak with they can't seem to get it right. So I have decided to let them spend "your" money sending me un-warranted invoices, un-solicited mail and countless publications. I must admit that I do read the Under Sea Journal and glance through the magazine before it joins the rest of the stuff which gets filed in the trash can.
This is just the tip of the iceburg as far as my complaints against PADI, like I said don't get me started.........
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jcjetty
Guppy
"Those of you who think you know it all are very irritating to those of us who do"
Posts: 3
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Post by jcjetty on Dec 21, 2004 20:45:10 GMT -5
My only experiences with PADI usa were good ones, I however do see the problem. There comes a time in 99% of businesses when they loose sight of the grass roots from which they came. The dollar becomes more important than customer service. Being a small business owner I feel that if the customer service is top notch then the dollar will naturally follow. I attended Pro Dive for my IDC and MSDT training and I feel this problen I just mentioned has taken a firm grasp there. The (unintentional?) lack of communication left me nearly $1500 under budget and in deep trouble. Even after being assured that I had everything I needed.
Any how, this is not about Pro Dive it is only an example of how business corrupts and big business corrupts absolute... and PADI is a BIG orginization.
The good news is there is always room for reform and it starts with people like us who has their collective fingers on the pulse of the scuba industry. If a big enough splash is made every one will know.
cheers.
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Post by Sharki on Dec 22, 2004 4:05:51 GMT -5
puhhh... bad stuff about PADI.
Since three years I don't have problems anymore with PADI Europe (cross fingers!). But before it was a mess like I read in the other posts. They charged me twice the fees (three years in a row...), they lost some of my personal applications and sometimes it took them (still does randomly) 4-5 months to send the certification card to my students.
After several phonecalls and once a talk to a high representative from PADI Europe, it finaly works smouth. But I understand all the others here and I do agree with the webpage. We should write them or send them a link to this thread! Would be interesting to hear what they say!
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steve75
Barracuda
Incompetents invariably make trouble for people other than themselves
Posts: 89
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Post by steve75 on Dec 22, 2004 8:42:27 GMT -5
I have to say also,dealing with PADI Europe at the moment, I am not impressed.But as I understand it all the PADI's are just franchise (correct me if I am wrong),so I think thats where the problem starts.It seems also PADI Europe is hopeless understaffed.
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Okidoki
Puffer
So much more to learn and to see
Posts: 27
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Post by Okidoki on Feb 27, 2005 22:21:23 GMT -5
>:(Hi guy I will give you a hint just drop Drew or another excecutive an email you will get def. a response
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Post by Argo on Apr 20, 2005 8:13:15 GMT -5
Hi Flotsam.......... couldn't agree more mate. I have felt the same way for years now with PADI (We all know what that stands for) First it was with the OWSI not being able to train AI but only up to DM>>>>>. meaning more IDCS certs for PADI And then it was the MFA > EFR thing which by the way if you ask me is crap, I'm also an EMT and MFA was by far the more comprehensive of the two, BUT it was made by another company and not one under the umbrella of PADI, meaning............ yep More money in the PADI box........ Another thing that really Pi**es me off is the QA dept. If a report is sent in about a diver then woe is he who is on the list........... Now if you, me or another normal diver complains about a Diveshop or center then IF it gets looked into it will take years to sort out AND then IF there is any kind of admonishment its basiclly nothing........ KNOW WHY?  // Cos it's all about MONEY.......... Don't get me wrong, I think the idea of PADI is good but somewhere along the line the basic values have been forgotten....... BTW if your serious about that Instructor Union contact me........ argonautic@hotmail.com Had exactly the same idea on my mind for some time now... Argo PADI MSDT CMAS 2 ** Instr TDI Intr. and a cpl more but I won't bore you with the rest ;D ;D |
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steve75
Barracuda
Incompetents invariably make trouble for people other than themselves
Posts: 89
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Post by steve75 on May 2, 2005 13:22:19 GMT -5
BTW if your serious about that Instructor Union contact me........ argonautic@hotmail.com Had exactly the same idea on my mind for some time now... This idea seems to come up quite regular.Maybe we should ask Lsdeep to give that a own section here and see what comes around when all of us are brainstorming.Their was a website www.iudp.org at one point, it is still their,but nothing going on on it since 2003.It look like somebody was starting something along this matter but give up. I am shure their will be more intrest. |
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Post by tekmac on May 3, 2005 12:34:04 GMT -5
I think I should give this thread some room again.  First of all, sure PADI is about money, as any other business I know of. There is nothing wrong about that. Most of us, if not all are in this business for the money too! If it wouldn't be like that, I don't understand complaints about low pay . Even club organisations like BSAC have to make money also. The problem I personally have (not only with PADI, but also some other training organisations I'm a member of) is, that they obviously lost the grip who is paying the money. The money comes from membership fees (DM/ AI/ Instr. and on the other side DC's), certification fees for divers of all levels and teaching material sales. There are other sources of income also, PADI this days is a bit more then the scuba certification agency. You're looking further at DSAT, Diving Society, EFR, Project Aware to name a few. The problem is simply, the focus seems lost. To give you an example in pure cash numbers. The member counts are taken from PADI's statistics webpage (based on survey from the year 2000) and freely available for everybody (just in case you dont believe me). As for the year 2000 there where : 4,726 IRRA Members 106,893 Individual Pro Members 526,904 new diver certs. That would lead to the following income for PADI: I just used U$500 as IRRA membership fee ( it is actually less than that) 4,726 x 500 = U$2,363,000 of IRRA members For pro members I used U$125 (DM and AI pay less, Instructors more then that, EFR/MFA I didn't bother to take in the equation) 106,893 x 125 = U$13,361,625 of individual members For certs. I just rounded the PIC fee to U$15 526,904 x 15 = U$7,903,560 for new divers So, PADI collects around 5 times more money of us then of dive centers of any kind and still 1.5 times more then of cert's and dc's combined. Income from teaching materials you can forget about, since the individual instr needs the same as the dive center to certify his divers in a professional manner. 1) All I want to know now is, whom should you keep happy from a commercial point of view? 2) Would it be so bad to "force" some measures on IRRA members, to improve working conditions for the individual dive professional, even if you loose some dc's. The dc's have to loose also by not choosing to renew as PADI members (reputation/recognition, and - believe me - business and money) 3) Shouldn't an organisation as the biggest in the world and claiming of being the bleeding edge of everything take care of it's money making members. a lot of big companies offer benefit packages to their employees and I don't want to suggest that PADI offers me health, 401k or other benefits, but they should take care that there members are taken care of above the average of other agencies. That would also drive more biz PADI's way (now don't ask how that would be happen, but if you can't figure it out let me know I will spend another post on it ) |
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Post by LSDeep on May 3, 2005 15:45:24 GMT -5
did some research there mac i see ;D
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Post by eurodive on May 29, 2007 6:55:32 GMT -5
My reply to every one, we work with CMAS and this is our seventh year with no problems ! We think CMAS is safer bet, and cheaper. !!
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